<html>
<head><meta charset="utf-8"><title>meeting 2020.10.06 · t-compiler/wg-rustc-dev-guide · Zulip Chat Archive</title></head>
<h2>Stream: <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/196385-t-compiler/wg-rustc-dev-guide/index.html">t-compiler/wg-rustc-dev-guide</a></h2>
<h3>Topic: <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/196385-t-compiler/wg-rustc-dev-guide/topic/meeting.202020.2E10.2E06.html">meeting 2020.10.06</a></h3>

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<a name="212468931"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/196385-t-compiler/wg-rustc-dev-guide/topic/meeting%202020.10.06/near/212468931" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Santiago Pastorino <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/196385-t-compiler/wg-rustc-dev-guide/topic/meeting.202020.2E10.2E06.html#212468931">(Oct 06 2020 at 18:48)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-group-mention" data-user-group-id="1380">@WG-rustc-dev-guide</span> according to the agenda we have a meeting at <time datetime="2020-10-06T19:30:00Z">2020-10-06T19:30:00+00:00</time></p>



<a name="212468970"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/196385-t-compiler/wg-rustc-dev-guide/topic/meeting%202020.10.06/near/212468970" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Santiago Pastorino <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/196385-t-compiler/wg-rustc-dev-guide/topic/meeting.202020.2E10.2E06.html#212468970">(Oct 06 2020 at 18:49)</a>:</h4>
<p>who is around to participate? do someone have things to discuss?</p>



<a name="212469033"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/196385-t-compiler/wg-rustc-dev-guide/topic/meeting%202020.10.06/near/212469033" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Tshepang Lekhonkhobe <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/196385-t-compiler/wg-rustc-dev-guide/topic/meeting.202020.2E10.2E06.html#212469033">(Oct 06 2020 at 18:49)</a>:</h4>
<p>I can join, but have nothing to discuss</p>



<a name="212469129"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/196385-t-compiler/wg-rustc-dev-guide/topic/meeting%202020.10.06/near/212469129" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Joshua Nelson <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/196385-t-compiler/wg-rustc-dev-guide/topic/meeting.202020.2E10.2E06.html#212469129">(Oct 06 2020 at 18:50)</a>:</h4>
<p>I finally got the bootstrapping pr merged <span aria-label="tada" class="emoji emoji-1f389" role="img" title="tada">:tada:</span></p>



<a name="212469156"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/196385-t-compiler/wg-rustc-dev-guide/topic/meeting%202020.10.06/near/212469156" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Tshepang Lekhonkhobe <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/196385-t-compiler/wg-rustc-dev-guide/topic/meeting.202020.2E10.2E06.html#212469156">(Oct 06 2020 at 18:50)</a>:</h4>
<p>which one is that</p>



<a name="212469216"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/196385-t-compiler/wg-rustc-dev-guide/topic/meeting%202020.10.06/near/212469216" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Tshepang Lekhonkhobe <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/196385-t-compiler/wg-rustc-dev-guide/topic/meeting.202020.2E10.2E06.html#212469216">(Oct 06 2020 at 18:51)</a>:</h4>
<p>... there's been much activity on that front that it was hard to keep up</p>



<a name="212469250"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/196385-t-compiler/wg-rustc-dev-guide/topic/meeting%202020.10.06/near/212469250" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Joshua Nelson <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/196385-t-compiler/wg-rustc-dev-guide/topic/meeting.202020.2E10.2E06.html#212469250">(Oct 06 2020 at 18:51)</a>:</h4>
<p><a href="https://github.com/rust-lang/rustc-dev-guide/pull/857">https://github.com/rust-lang/rustc-dev-guide/pull/857</a></p>



<a name="212469264"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/196385-t-compiler/wg-rustc-dev-guide/topic/meeting%202020.10.06/near/212469264" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Joshua Nelson <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/196385-t-compiler/wg-rustc-dev-guide/topic/meeting.202020.2E10.2E06.html#212469264">(Oct 06 2020 at 18:51)</a>:</h4>
<p>From like 2 months ago lol</p>



<a name="212469400"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/196385-t-compiler/wg-rustc-dev-guide/topic/meeting%202020.10.06/near/212469400" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Joshua Nelson <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/196385-t-compiler/wg-rustc-dev-guide/topic/meeting.202020.2E10.2E06.html#212469400">(Oct 06 2020 at 18:52)</a>:</h4>
<p>It doesn't have the nice diagram <span class="user-mention silent" data-user-id="198054">mark-i-m</span> made unfortunately but I got tired of fighting that fight</p>



<a name="212469628"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/196385-t-compiler/wg-rustc-dev-guide/topic/meeting%202020.10.06/near/212469628" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Joshua Nelson <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/196385-t-compiler/wg-rustc-dev-guide/topic/meeting.202020.2E10.2E06.html#212469628">(Oct 06 2020 at 18:54)</a>:</h4>
<p>I also got a <code>A-contributor-roadblock</code> label added to rust-lang/rust: <a href="https://github.com/rust-lang/rust/labels/A-contributor-roadblock">https://github.com/rust-lang/rust/labels/A-contributor-roadblock</a></p>



<a name="212469688"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/196385-t-compiler/wg-rustc-dev-guide/topic/meeting%202020.10.06/near/212469688" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Santiago Pastorino <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/196385-t-compiler/wg-rustc-dev-guide/topic/meeting.202020.2E10.2E06.html#212469688">(Oct 06 2020 at 18:54)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention silent" data-user-id="232545">Joshua Nelson</span> <a href="#narrow/stream/196385-t-compiler.2Fwg-rustc-dev-guide/topic/meeting.202020.2E10.2E06/near/212469400">said</a>:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>It doesn't have the nice diagram <span class="user-mention silent" data-user-id="198054">mark-i-m</span> made unfortunately but I got tired of fighting that fight</p>
</blockquote>
<p>why it doesn't have it?</p>



<a name="212469710"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/196385-t-compiler/wg-rustc-dev-guide/topic/meeting%202020.10.06/near/212469710" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Joshua Nelson <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/196385-t-compiler/wg-rustc-dev-guide/topic/meeting.202020.2E10.2E06.html#212469710">(Oct 06 2020 at 18:55)</a>:</h4>
<p>And added <code>x.py setup</code> which I'm very proud of :) there's already like 4 PRs for it from people other than me</p>



<a name="212469742"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/196385-t-compiler/wg-rustc-dev-guide/topic/meeting%202020.10.06/near/212469742" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Santiago Pastorino <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/196385-t-compiler/wg-rustc-dev-guide/topic/meeting.202020.2E10.2E06.html#212469742">(Oct 06 2020 at 18:55)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention silent" data-user-id="232545">Joshua Nelson</span> <a href="#narrow/stream/196385-t-compiler.2Fwg-rustc-dev-guide/topic/meeting.202020.2E10.2E06/near/212469710">said</a>:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>And added <code>x.py setup</code> which I'm very proud of :) there's already like 4 PRs for it from people other than me</p>
</blockquote>
<p>link?</p>



<a name="212469785"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/196385-t-compiler/wg-rustc-dev-guide/topic/meeting%202020.10.06/near/212469785" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Joshua Nelson <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/196385-t-compiler/wg-rustc-dev-guide/topic/meeting.202020.2E10.2E06.html#212469785">(Oct 06 2020 at 18:55)</a>:</h4>
<blockquote>
<p>why doesn't it have it</p>
</blockquote>
<p><a href="#narrow/stream/182449-t-compiler.2Fhelp/topic/stage1.20compiler.20without.20std">https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com/#narrow/stream/182449-t-compiler.2Fhelp/topic/stage1.20compiler.20without.20std</a></p>



<a name="212469947"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/196385-t-compiler/wg-rustc-dev-guide/topic/meeting%202020.10.06/near/212469947" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Joshua Nelson <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/196385-t-compiler/wg-rustc-dev-guide/topic/meeting.202020.2E10.2E06.html#212469947">(Oct 06 2020 at 18:57)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention silent" data-user-id="116266">Santiago Pastorino</span> <a href="#narrow/stream/196385-t-compiler.2Fwg-rustc-dev-guide/topic/meeting.202020.2E10.2E06/near/212469742">said</a>:</p>
<blockquote>
<p><span class="user-mention silent" data-user-id="232545">Joshua Nelson</span> <a href="#narrow/stream/196385-t-compiler.2Fwg-rustc-dev-guide/topic/meeting.202020.2E10.2E06/near/212469710">said</a>:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>And added <code>x.py setup</code> which I'm very proud of :) there's already like 4 PRs for it from people other than me</p>
</blockquote>
<p>link?</p>
</blockquote>
<p><a href="https://github.com/rust-lang/rust/pull/76631">https://github.com/rust-lang/rust/pull/76631</a></p>



<a name="212470039"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/196385-t-compiler/wg-rustc-dev-guide/topic/meeting%202020.10.06/near/212470039" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Joshua Nelson <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/196385-t-compiler/wg-rustc-dev-guide/topic/meeting.202020.2E10.2E06.html#212470039">(Oct 06 2020 at 18:57)</a>:</h4>
<p>docs for it at <a href="https://github.com/rust-lang/rustc-dev-guide/pull/899">https://github.com/rust-lang/rustc-dev-guide/pull/899</a> / <a href="https://rustc-dev-guide.rust-lang.org/getting-started.html?highlight=setup#configuring-the-compiler">https://rustc-dev-guide.rust-lang.org/getting-started.html?highlight=setup#configuring-the-compiler</a>, but the docs mostly just say 'run it and it will explain what it does'</p>



<a name="212470427"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/196385-t-compiler/wg-rustc-dev-guide/topic/meeting%202020.10.06/near/212470427" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Joshua Nelson <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/196385-t-compiler/wg-rustc-dev-guide/topic/meeting.202020.2E10.2E06.html#212470427">(Oct 06 2020 at 19:01)</a>:</h4>
<p>about the dev-guide itself: the problem I've been seeing lately is there's so much info people have trouble finding it</p>



<a name="212470476"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/196385-t-compiler/wg-rustc-dev-guide/topic/meeting%202020.10.06/near/212470476" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Joshua Nelson <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/196385-t-compiler/wg-rustc-dev-guide/topic/meeting.202020.2E10.2E06.html#212470476">(Oct 06 2020 at 19:01)</a>:</h4>
<p>e.g. <span class="user-mention" data-user-id="337739">@Cass</span> didn't see the section on worktrees and was throwing away her build cache every time she switched between PRs</p>



<a name="212470607"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/196385-t-compiler/wg-rustc-dev-guide/topic/meeting%202020.10.06/near/212470607" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Joshua Nelson <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/196385-t-compiler/wg-rustc-dev-guide/topic/meeting.202020.2E10.2E06.html#212470607">(Oct 06 2020 at 19:02)</a>:</h4>
<p>not sure how to improve that ... maybe we should have separate table of contents for 'start here' and the reference section?</p>



<a name="212472349"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/196385-t-compiler/wg-rustc-dev-guide/topic/meeting%202020.10.06/near/212472349" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Iñaki Garay <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/196385-t-compiler/wg-rustc-dev-guide/topic/meeting.202020.2E10.2E06.html#212472349">(Oct 06 2020 at 19:17)</a>:</h4>
<p>Hello! I mean to do <a href="https://github.com/rust-lang/rustc-dev-guide/issues/892">https://github.com/rust-lang/rustc-dev-guide/issues/892</a> but I haven't finished with the survey answer translations yet, those'll be done by tomorrow and then I'll start on the issue.</p>



<a name="212472428"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/196385-t-compiler/wg-rustc-dev-guide/topic/meeting%202020.10.06/near/212472428" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Joshua Nelson <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/196385-t-compiler/wg-rustc-dev-guide/topic/meeting.202020.2E10.2E06.html#212472428">(Oct 06 2020 at 19:17)</a>:</h4>
<p>thanks so much! That sounds great :)</p>



<a name="212473884"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/196385-t-compiler/wg-rustc-dev-guide/topic/meeting%202020.10.06/near/212473884" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Santiago Pastorino <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/196385-t-compiler/wg-rustc-dev-guide/topic/meeting.202020.2E10.2E06.html#212473884">(Oct 06 2020 at 19:30)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention silent" data-user-id="232545">Joshua Nelson</span> <a href="#narrow/stream/196385-t-compiler.2Fwg-rustc-dev-guide/topic/meeting.202020.2E10.2E06/near/212470607">said</a>:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>not sure how to improve that ... maybe we should have separate table of contents for 'start here' and the reference section?</p>
</blockquote>
<p>hehe, I've thought about a page that's like a TL;DR the Rustc Dev Guide or a summary of it with links to the guide</p>



<a name="212473923"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/196385-t-compiler/wg-rustc-dev-guide/topic/meeting%202020.10.06/near/212473923" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Santiago Pastorino <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/196385-t-compiler/wg-rustc-dev-guide/topic/meeting.202020.2E10.2E06.html#212473923">(Oct 06 2020 at 19:30)</a>:</h4>
<p>but yeah, what you're saying a compressed TOC that points to every single corner of the guide</p>



<a name="212474271"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/196385-t-compiler/wg-rustc-dev-guide/topic/meeting%202020.10.06/near/212474271" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Santiago Pastorino <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/196385-t-compiler/wg-rustc-dev-guide/topic/meeting.202020.2E10.2E06.html#212474271">(Oct 06 2020 at 19:33)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-group-mention" data-user-group-id="1380">@WG-rustc-dev-guide</span> right now is the meeting time but I don't know if there's anything else to talk about?</p>



<a name="212474388"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/196385-t-compiler/wg-rustc-dev-guide/topic/meeting%202020.10.06/near/212474388" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Joshua Nelson <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/196385-t-compiler/wg-rustc-dev-guide/topic/meeting.202020.2E10.2E06.html#212474388">(Oct 06 2020 at 19:34)</a>:</h4>
<p>oh oops I misread, I thought you said the meeting started 40 minutes ago <span aria-label="laughing" class="emoji emoji-1f606" role="img" title="laughing">:laughing:</span></p>



<a name="212474420"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/196385-t-compiler/wg-rustc-dev-guide/topic/meeting%202020.10.06/near/212474420" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Santiago Pastorino <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/196385-t-compiler/wg-rustc-dev-guide/topic/meeting.202020.2E10.2E06.html#212474420">(Oct 06 2020 at 19:34)</a>:</h4>
<p>hehe when I saw you going over everything I was guessing that :P</p>



<a name="212474432"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/196385-t-compiler/wg-rustc-dev-guide/topic/meeting%202020.10.06/near/212474432" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Santiago Pastorino <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/196385-t-compiler/wg-rustc-dev-guide/topic/meeting.202020.2E10.2E06.html#212474432">(Oct 06 2020 at 19:35)</a>:</h4>
<p>anyway, it's fine :)</p>



<a name="212474521"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/196385-t-compiler/wg-rustc-dev-guide/topic/meeting%202020.10.06/near/212474521" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Santiago Pastorino <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/196385-t-compiler/wg-rustc-dev-guide/topic/meeting.202020.2E10.2E06.html#212474521">(Oct 06 2020 at 19:35)</a>:</h4>
<p>I'm pinging just in case you want to mention something else or anyone else in the group want mention something</p>



<a name="212474667"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/196385-t-compiler/wg-rustc-dev-guide/topic/meeting%202020.10.06/near/212474667" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Joshua Nelson <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/196385-t-compiler/wg-rustc-dev-guide/topic/meeting.202020.2E10.2E06.html#212474667">(Oct 06 2020 at 19:36)</a>:</h4>
<p>not directly related to the dev-guide, but I'm also proud of <a href="https://github.com/tokio-rs/tracing/pull/990">https://github.com/tokio-rs/tracing/pull/990</a></p>



<a name="212474694"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/196385-t-compiler/wg-rustc-dev-guide/topic/meeting%202020.10.06/near/212474694" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Joshua Nelson <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/196385-t-compiler/wg-rustc-dev-guide/topic/meeting.202020.2E10.2E06.html#212474694">(Oct 06 2020 at 19:36)</a>:</h4>
<p>it will warn if you try to use <code>RUSTC_LOG=debug</code> with <code>debug = false</code></p>



<a name="212475803"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/196385-t-compiler/wg-rustc-dev-guide/topic/meeting%202020.10.06/near/212475803" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Santiago Pastorino <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/196385-t-compiler/wg-rustc-dev-guide/topic/meeting.202020.2E10.2E06.html#212475803">(Oct 06 2020 at 19:46)</a>:</h4>
<p>great!!!</p>



<a name="212475874"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/196385-t-compiler/wg-rustc-dev-guide/topic/meeting%202020.10.06/near/212475874" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Joshua Nelson <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/196385-t-compiler/wg-rustc-dev-guide/topic/meeting.202020.2E10.2E06.html#212475874">(Oct 06 2020 at 19:47)</a>:</h4>
<p>that's pretty close to merging I think, maybe sometime this week and then I can bump the dependency for rustc</p>



<a name="212475991"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/196385-t-compiler/wg-rustc-dev-guide/topic/meeting%202020.10.06/near/212475991" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Tshepang Lekhonkhobe <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/196385-t-compiler/wg-rustc-dev-guide/topic/meeting.202020.2E10.2E06.html#212475991">(Oct 06 2020 at 19:48)</a>:</h4>
<p>talking about tracing, is there somewhere a write-up why it's considered the new hotness</p>



<a name="212476020"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/196385-t-compiler/wg-rustc-dev-guide/topic/meeting%202020.10.06/near/212476020" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Joshua Nelson <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/196385-t-compiler/wg-rustc-dev-guide/topic/meeting.202020.2E10.2E06.html#212476020">(Oct 06 2020 at 19:48)</a>:</h4>
<p>no, but there's an issue open for that ;) <a href="https://github.com/rust-lang/rustc-dev-guide/issues/892">https://github.com/rust-lang/rustc-dev-guide/issues/892</a></p>



<a name="212476040"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/196385-t-compiler/wg-rustc-dev-guide/topic/meeting%202020.10.06/near/212476040" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Joshua Nelson <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/196385-t-compiler/wg-rustc-dev-guide/topic/meeting.202020.2E10.2E06.html#212476040">(Oct 06 2020 at 19:49)</a>:</h4>
<p>the main difference I think is that you can group logs together with a drop guard</p>



<a name="212476066"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/196385-t-compiler/wg-rustc-dev-guide/topic/meeting%202020.10.06/near/212476066" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Joshua Nelson <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/196385-t-compiler/wg-rustc-dev-guide/topic/meeting.202020.2E10.2E06.html#212476066">(Oct 06 2020 at 19:49)</a>:</h4>
<p>so you can say 'all these logs are related to this query' without having to stare at it really hard</p>



<a name="212476094"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/196385-t-compiler/wg-rustc-dev-guide/topic/meeting%202020.10.06/near/212476094" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Joshua Nelson <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/196385-t-compiler/wg-rustc-dev-guide/topic/meeting.202020.2E10.2E06.html#212476094">(Oct 06 2020 at 19:49)</a>:</h4>
<p><a href="https://github.com/rust-lang/rust/pull/75143">https://github.com/rust-lang/rust/pull/75143</a></p>



<a name="212476276"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/196385-t-compiler/wg-rustc-dev-guide/topic/meeting%202020.10.06/near/212476276" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Tshepang Lekhonkhobe <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/196385-t-compiler/wg-rustc-dev-guide/topic/meeting.202020.2E10.2E06.html#212476276">(Oct 06 2020 at 19:51)</a>:</h4>
<p>I don't understand... I need some basic explanation, and api docs didn't help</p>



<a name="212476296"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/196385-t-compiler/wg-rustc-dev-guide/topic/meeting%202020.10.06/near/212476296" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Joshua Nelson <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/196385-t-compiler/wg-rustc-dev-guide/topic/meeting.202020.2E10.2E06.html#212476296">(Oct 06 2020 at 19:51)</a>:</h4>
<p>maybe the picture will help:<br>
<a href="https://user-images.githubusercontent.com/332036/89291343-aa40de00-d65a-11ea-9f6c-ea06c1806327.png">https://user-images.githubusercontent.com/332036/89291343-aa40de00-d65a-11ea-9f6c-ea06c1806327.png</a></p>
<div class="message_inline_image"><a href="https://user-images.githubusercontent.com/332036/89291343-aa40de00-d65a-11ea-9f6c-ea06c1806327.png"><img src="https://user-images.githubusercontent.com/332036/89291343-aa40de00-d65a-11ea-9f6c-ea06c1806327.png"></a></div>



<a name="212476297"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/196385-t-compiler/wg-rustc-dev-guide/topic/meeting%202020.10.06/near/212476297" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Tshepang Lekhonkhobe <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/196385-t-compiler/wg-rustc-dev-guide/topic/meeting.202020.2E10.2E06.html#212476297">(Oct 06 2020 at 19:51)</a>:</h4>
<p>also in general, not just as regards the compiler</p>



<a name="212476398"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/196385-t-compiler/wg-rustc-dev-guide/topic/meeting%202020.10.06/near/212476398" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Joshua Nelson <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/196385-t-compiler/wg-rustc-dev-guide/topic/meeting.202020.2E10.2E06.html#212476398">(Oct 06 2020 at 19:52)</a>:</h4>
<p>or <a href="/user_uploads/4715/tGOVMLe6WS0WN9aD_tQD62p8/image.png">image.png</a></p>
<div class="message_inline_image"><a href="/user_uploads/4715/tGOVMLe6WS0WN9aD_tQD62p8/image.png" title="image.png"><img src="/user_uploads/4715/tGOVMLe6WS0WN9aD_tQD62p8/image.png"></a></div>



<a name="212476497"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/196385-t-compiler/wg-rustc-dev-guide/topic/meeting%202020.10.06/near/212476497" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Tshepang Lekhonkhobe <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/196385-t-compiler/wg-rustc-dev-guide/topic/meeting.202020.2E10.2E06.html#212476497">(Oct 06 2020 at 19:53)</a>:</h4>
<p>is that an example from the tracing repo</p>



<a name="212476508"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/196385-t-compiler/wg-rustc-dev-guide/topic/meeting%202020.10.06/near/212476508" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Joshua Nelson <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/196385-t-compiler/wg-rustc-dev-guide/topic/meeting.202020.2E10.2E06.html#212476508">(Oct 06 2020 at 19:53)</a>:</h4>
<p>from the PR I linked</p>



<a name="212476564"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/196385-t-compiler/wg-rustc-dev-guide/topic/meeting%202020.10.06/near/212476564" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Joshua Nelson <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/196385-t-compiler/wg-rustc-dev-guide/topic/meeting.202020.2E10.2E06.html#212476564">(Oct 06 2020 at 19:54)</a>:</h4>
<p>it shows how grouping them together makes it easier to read</p>



<a name="212476824"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/196385-t-compiler/wg-rustc-dev-guide/topic/meeting%202020.10.06/near/212476824" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Tshepang Lekhonkhobe <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/196385-t-compiler/wg-rustc-dev-guide/topic/meeting.202020.2E10.2E06.html#212476824">(Oct 06 2020 at 19:56)</a>:</h4>
<p>I have nothing to compare it to... I think I should have a look at tracing repo examples</p>



<a name="212477231"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/196385-t-compiler/wg-rustc-dev-guide/topic/meeting%202020.10.06/near/212477231" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Iñaki Garay <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/196385-t-compiler/wg-rustc-dev-guide/topic/meeting.202020.2E10.2E06.html#212477231">(Oct 06 2020 at 19:59)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention" data-user-id="119529">@Tshepang Lekhonkhobe</span> I would say that the short answer to why tracing is desireable is spans. They will help both 'zone in' on info in a specific debug session, and will also help understand what the compiler does concurrently.</p>



<a name="212477585"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/196385-t-compiler/wg-rustc-dev-guide/topic/meeting%202020.10.06/near/212477585" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Iñaki Garay <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/196385-t-compiler/wg-rustc-dev-guide/topic/meeting.202020.2E10.2E06.html#212477585">(Oct 06 2020 at 20:01)</a>:</h4>
<p>so even shorter, its easier to filter the information in logs to be the correct information you want when debugging</p>



<a name="212486076"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/196385-t-compiler/wg-rustc-dev-guide/topic/meeting%202020.10.06/near/212486076" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> mark-i-m <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/196385-t-compiler/wg-rustc-dev-guide/topic/meeting.202020.2E10.2E06.html#212486076">(Oct 06 2020 at 21:09)</a>:</h4>
<p>Catching up a bit late (sorry, I had another meeting... things have been busy)...</p>



<a name="212486370"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/196385-t-compiler/wg-rustc-dev-guide/topic/meeting%202020.10.06/near/212486370" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> mark-i-m <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/196385-t-compiler/wg-rustc-dev-guide/topic/meeting.202020.2E10.2E06.html#212486370">(Oct 06 2020 at 21:11)</a>:</h4>
<p>Agree with everything said above. I'm a bit out-of-the-loop on a bunch of stuff now. The progress on the bootstrapping stuff is really nice <span aria-label="tada" class="emoji emoji-1f389" role="img" title="tada">:tada:</span></p>



<a name="212486434"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/196385-t-compiler/wg-rustc-dev-guide/topic/meeting%202020.10.06/near/212486434" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> mark-i-m <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/196385-t-compiler/wg-rustc-dev-guide/topic/meeting.202020.2E10.2E06.html#212486434">(Oct 06 2020 at 21:11)</a>:</h4>
<p>Also, the tracing stuff mentioned by <span class="user-mention" data-user-id="209053">@Iñaki Garay</span> looks cool too <span aria-label="smile" class="emoji emoji-1f642" role="img" title="smile">:smile:</span></p>



<a name="212489812"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/196385-t-compiler/wg-rustc-dev-guide/topic/meeting%202020.10.06/near/212489812" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> mark-i-m <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/196385-t-compiler/wg-rustc-dev-guide/topic/meeting.202020.2E10.2E06.html#212489812">(Oct 06 2020 at 21:43)</a>:</h4>
<p>Regarding the diagram: it feels like the root of the problem is how different artifacts and commands relate to the stage numbers. For example, the compiler depends on the previous compiler + std; std depends on the previous compiler  only; some the tools depend on the compiler by _linking_ to it in addition to being compiled by it; tests depend on the compiler you are testing; docs depend on something else (I don't remember).</p>
<p>AFAICT, the reason the diagram was such a hit with some is that</p>
<ul>
<li>many people only care about std and rustc and didn't want all the details about tools, docs, etc.</li>
<li>no matter how many times we define it "stage N" vs "stage N artifacts" is still confusing. Instead, the diagram visually shows how many compilers are built and how.</li>
<li>it provides a relatively simple framework to understand why stuff is being built when it is (e.g. need to be ABI compatible).</li>
</ul>
<p>Now, I'm not sure if the diagram is still accurate given the recent changes to bootstrapping and the defaults, but I think any diagram that satisfies the above details will make people happy.</p>
<p>Moreover, I suspect that what might be most useful is for there to be two parts of the bootstrapping chapter: one for most people that just want to understand the basics enough to use x.py. I think this can have a diagram like the above that only talks about rustc and std and says "but read the other part for more details about tools, docs, etc". And the second part would go into all the gory details by fleshing out the simple diagram... In other words, it would start with the simple diagram as a base, and then explain all the missing parts. Until we get to a full view.</p>



<a name="212490222"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/196385-t-compiler/wg-rustc-dev-guide/topic/meeting%202020.10.06/near/212490222" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Joshua Nelson <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/196385-t-compiler/wg-rustc-dev-guide/topic/meeting.202020.2E10.2E06.html#212490222">(Oct 06 2020 at 21:47)</a>:</h4>
<blockquote>
<p>Now, I'm not sure if the diagram is still accurate given the recent changes to bootstrapping and the defaults, but I think any diagram that satisfies the above details will make people happy.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>the diagram is still accurate, the labels are not</p>



<a name="212490252"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/196385-t-compiler/wg-rustc-dev-guide/topic/meeting%202020.10.06/near/212490252" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Joshua Nelson <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/196385-t-compiler/wg-rustc-dev-guide/topic/meeting.202020.2E10.2E06.html#212490252">(Oct 06 2020 at 21:47)</a>:</h4>
<p>in particular '<code>x.py build</code> builds everything in column N' is no longer true - it doesn't build <code>rustc</code></p>



<a name="212490441"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/196385-t-compiler/wg-rustc-dev-guide/topic/meeting%202020.10.06/near/212490441" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Joshua Nelson <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/196385-t-compiler/wg-rustc-dev-guide/topic/meeting.202020.2E10.2E06.html#212490441">(Oct 06 2020 at 21:49)</a>:</h4>
<blockquote>
<p>I suspect that what might be most useful is for there to be two parts of the bootstrapping chapter: one for most people that just want to understand the basics enough to use x.py ... and the second part would go into all the gory details</p>
</blockquote>
<p>yeah, I like that idea</p>



<a name="212490467"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/196385-t-compiler/wg-rustc-dev-guide/topic/meeting%202020.10.06/near/212490467" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Joshua Nelson <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/196385-t-compiler/wg-rustc-dev-guide/topic/meeting.202020.2E10.2E06.html#212490467">(Oct 06 2020 at 21:49)</a>:</h4>
<p>and that would address <span class="user-mention" data-user-id="116122">@simulacrum</span> 's concern that we're <em>over</em> documenting and getting lost in the weeds at places</p>



<a name="212509192"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/196385-t-compiler/wg-rustc-dev-guide/topic/meeting%202020.10.06/near/212509192" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> mark-i-m <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/196385-t-compiler/wg-rustc-dev-guide/topic/meeting.202020.2E10.2E06.html#212509192">(Oct 07 2020 at 02:30)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention silent" data-user-id="232545">Joshua Nelson</span> <a href="#narrow/stream/196385-t-compiler.2Fwg-rustc-dev-guide/topic/meeting.202020.2E10.2E06/near/212490252">said</a>:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>in particular '<code>x.py build</code> builds everything in column N' is no longer true - it doesn't build <code>rustc</code></p>
</blockquote>
<p>So it builds <code>std</code> from column N?</p>



<a name="212510190"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/196385-t-compiler/wg-rustc-dev-guide/topic/meeting%202020.10.06/near/212510190" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Joshua Nelson <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/196385-t-compiler/wg-rustc-dev-guide/topic/meeting.202020.2E10.2E06.html#212510190">(Oct 07 2020 at 02:52)</a>:</h4>
<p>yes, std and tools currently</p>



<a name="212510195"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/196385-t-compiler/wg-rustc-dev-guide/topic/meeting%202020.10.06/near/212510195" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Joshua Nelson <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/196385-t-compiler/wg-rustc-dev-guide/topic/meeting.202020.2E10.2E06.html#212510195">(Oct 07 2020 at 02:52)</a>:</h4>
<p>I made an MCP not to build tools but there were objections after the fact so that's stalled</p>



<a name="212510203"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/196385-t-compiler/wg-rustc-dev-guide/topic/meeting%202020.10.06/near/212510203" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Joshua Nelson <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/196385-t-compiler/wg-rustc-dev-guide/topic/meeting.202020.2E10.2E06.html#212510203">(Oct 07 2020 at 02:53)</a>:</h4>
<p><a href="#narrow/stream/233931-t-compiler.2Fmajor-changes/topic/Don't.20build.20tools.20by.20default.20with.20.60x.2Epy.20b.E2.80.A6.20compiler-team.23351">https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com/#narrow/stream/233931-t-compiler.2Fmajor-changes/topic/Don't.20build.20tools.20by.20default.20with.20.60x.2Epy.20b.E2.80.A6.20compiler-team.23351</a></p>



<a name="212572903"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/196385-t-compiler/wg-rustc-dev-guide/topic/meeting%202020.10.06/near/212572903" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Santiago Pastorino <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/196385-t-compiler/wg-rustc-dev-guide/topic/meeting.202020.2E10.2E06.html#212572903">(Oct 07 2020 at 15:11)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention silent" data-user-id="232545">Joshua Nelson</span> <a href="#narrow/stream/196385-t-compiler.2Fwg-rustc-dev-guide/topic/meeting.202020.2E10.2E06/near/212490441">said</a>:</p>
<blockquote>
<blockquote>
<p>I suspect that what might be most useful is for there to be two parts of the bootstrapping chapter: one for most people that just want to understand the basics enough to use x.py ... and the second part would go into all the gory details</p>
</blockquote>
<p>yeah, I like that idea</p>
</blockquote>
<p>I like the idea too</p>



<a name="212572976"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/196385-t-compiler/wg-rustc-dev-guide/topic/meeting%202020.10.06/near/212572976" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Santiago Pastorino <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/196385-t-compiler/wg-rustc-dev-guide/topic/meeting.202020.2E10.2E06.html#212572976">(Oct 07 2020 at 15:11)</a>:</h4>
<p>in particular, we could have a getting started chapter that more or less explains the basics of everything to get started working</p>



<a name="212573000"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/196385-t-compiler/wg-rustc-dev-guide/topic/meeting%202020.10.06/near/212573000" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Santiago Pastorino <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/196385-t-compiler/wg-rustc-dev-guide/topic/meeting.202020.2E10.2E06.html#212573000">(Oct 07 2020 at 15:11)</a>:</h4>
<p>and the first part could go there with other things</p>



<a name="212573193"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/196385-t-compiler/wg-rustc-dev-guide/topic/meeting%202020.10.06/near/212573193" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Santiago Pastorino <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/196385-t-compiler/wg-rustc-dev-guide/topic/meeting.202020.2E10.2E06.html#212573193">(Oct 07 2020 at 15:12)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention silent" data-user-id="232545">Joshua Nelson</span> <a href="#narrow/stream/196385-t-compiler.2Fwg-rustc-dev-guide/topic/meeting.202020.2E10.2E06/near/212470607">said</a>:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>not sure how to improve that ... maybe we should have separate table of contents for 'start here' and the reference section?</p>
</blockquote>
<p>like <span aria-label="point up" class="emoji emoji-1f446" role="img" title="point up">:point_up:</span></p>



<a name="212573236"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/196385-t-compiler/wg-rustc-dev-guide/topic/meeting%202020.10.06/near/212573236" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Santiago Pastorino <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/196385-t-compiler/wg-rustc-dev-guide/topic/meeting.202020.2E10.2E06.html#212573236">(Oct 07 2020 at 15:13)</a>:</h4>
<p>and then the rest of the guide should be about details</p>



<a name="212573308"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/196385-t-compiler/wg-rustc-dev-guide/topic/meeting%202020.10.06/near/212573308" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Santiago Pastorino <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/196385-t-compiler/wg-rustc-dev-guide/topic/meeting.202020.2E10.2E06.html#212573308">(Oct 07 2020 at 15:13)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention silent" data-user-id="116266">Santiago Pastorino</span> <a href="#narrow/stream/196385-t-compiler.2Fwg-rustc-dev-guide/topic/meeting.202020.2E10.2E06/near/212572976">said</a>:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>in particular, we could have a getting started chapter that more or less explains the basics of everything to get started working</p>
</blockquote>
<p>or call it overview, unsure, but some very high level chapter that have kind of a TOC to every single corner and explain basic things to get one up and running quickly</p>



<a name="212573404"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/196385-t-compiler/wg-rustc-dev-guide/topic/meeting%202020.10.06/near/212573404" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Santiago Pastorino <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/196385-t-compiler/wg-rustc-dev-guide/topic/meeting.202020.2E10.2E06.html#212573404">(Oct 07 2020 at 15:14)</a>:</h4>
<p>and that also help one to search for specific things quickly</p>



<a name="212573493"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/196385-t-compiler/wg-rustc-dev-guide/topic/meeting%202020.10.06/near/212573493" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Santiago Pastorino <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/196385-t-compiler/wg-rustc-dev-guide/topic/meeting.202020.2E10.2E06.html#212573493">(Oct 07 2020 at 15:14)</a>:</h4>
<p>most of the books around, in this sections have an explanation about what each other section of the book is about, so maybe something like that fixes what <span class="user-mention" data-user-id="232545">@Joshua Nelson</span> was describing</p>



<hr><p>Last updated: Aug 07 2021 at 22:04 UTC</p>
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